Gender and Race-baiting

This is my second diary and I am looking to pose a question or at least spark a debate.  

      First, a bit of biography.  I grew up in a small town near State College, PA.  I went to highschool near Philly, and attended college in Lancaster.  Oh, and go Steelers.  I have as a carpenter, dishwasher, and business manager.  I am slightly neutral on the Dem candidates, or at least trying to stay that way.  I do not think Hillary should drop out, but I do think that the contest should be over as soon as possible after the last votes are cast.  I don't see any reason to give McCain another free month (or more) to hang around without a direct challenger.

       I have seen race-baiting and gender-baiting used by both candidates' campaigns.  No one is sin free.  Racism works against Obama.  Misogyny works against Clinton.  Unfortunately, that is just the way it is.  I give both candidates high praise for attaining so much success with these forces standing in their way.

      First, a personal note, then the question.  On the personal front, I want to mention my mother.  She is a true female role-model.  My mother is in her early 60's.  She still lives in my hometown.  She is an accomplished attorney.  In fact, she was the first practicing female lawyer in that county.  Her practice focuses on family law, she does massive amounts of pro-bono work, and she is on the board of the PA State Bar Association.  She is also a life long Democrat.  Many of her friends a peers are supporting HRC, not because they dislike BHO, but because they desperately want to see a woman president in their lifetime.  On the other hand, before the primary season even began, my mother told me that she hoped that HRC was not the nominee.  She said that she wanted to see a female president, but not "that woman."  I'm still working on my mom to make sure that she sees that if HRC is the nominee, my mom must vote for her.  My children's future depends on it.

       So, here is the question....  I have read many comments on this and other sites that accuse Obama of misogyny.  Some (not all but some) then go on to say that they will vote for McCain because of this.  Now, I am not defending Obama or the possible gender-baiting that his campaign may have engaged in.  But how can you then vote for McCain who (in front of reporters) called their wife a "trollop" and a "cunt"?  Just asking...   Please be civil.  



Display:


Re: Gender and Race-baiting (2.00 / 2)

Good question....

Personally I think voting for McCain is akin to a full-frontal lobotomy, but that's just because I know his politics.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 03:20:21 PM EST

nope you lost me (2.00 / 1)

I have seen race-baiting and gender-baiting used by both candidates' campaigns.  No one is sin free.  Racism works against Obama.  Misogyny works against Clinton.  Unfortunately, that is just the way it is.  I give both candidates high praise for attaining so much success with these forces standing in their way.

The idea that there was racism used against Obama is a lie made up to win SC.  In fact that sleazy tactic is why I will not vote for Obama in the general.

On the other hand he and his wife and his surrogates have all used sexist ideas to put Hillary down.... the other reason I will not vote for him.

Being neutral is no virtue when you are just accepting the media spin.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 03:25:40 PM EST

ps... (2.00 / 0)

there is no proof that mccain really said those things or even if he did, if he was joking with really creepy language.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 03:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ps... (none / 0)

would it be ok with you if he was "joking with really creepy language"?


by jacen42 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 03:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ps... (none / 0)

i'll be in scranton next week!


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 06:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your mother sounds like mine. (2.00 / 1)

As I posted in a diary yesterday, my mother is also a practicing attorney (appellate public defender) and a State Bar member of "Hillary constituency" age who dislikes Clinton.  But despite our support for Obama, my mother and I will definitely vote for Clinton in the general should she get the nomination.

Remind your mother that this election isn't just electing the leader of our country, but also electing the person who will fill at least two Supreme Court vacancies.  A vote for McCain is a vote for a solidly conservative SCOTUS for the next two decades at least.  That fact may help convince her of the need to back whichever Democrat wins the primary.

Hell, everyone would do well to remember it.  Focus on the contents of the package, not on the wrapping paper...the SCOTUS is too important to lose on account of spite.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 03:30:21 PM EST

Re: Your mother sounds like mine. (2.00 / 1)

Why is everybody so sure that because BO is a Dem the SCOTUS is safe? His positions on abortion are hazy as are his positions on gay rights. At least with McCain and a Dem congress he doesn't get an ultra cnservative through confirmation. Check=balance. But BO is an unknown... He voted FOR confirmation of John Roberts and AGAINST Fillibuster of Samuel Alito...2 very conservative justices who have joined forces with Scalia and Thomas. Having BO in the WH is FAR from a guarantee that Roe vs Wade is safe or any other conservative issues. He affiliates with the Dem Party, but he shows all too often Republican leanings. Look at Joe Lieberman...


Take it to the Convention! Hillary '08"
by JHL on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:35:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama did NOT vote for Roberts (none / 0)

http://obama.senate.gov/press/050922-rem arks_of_sena/

Here is his statement.


First of all, let me congratulate Senator Specter and Senator Leahy for moving the process of confirming the nomination of Judge Roberts along with such civility, a civility that I believe speaks well of the Senate.

Let me also say that I remain distressed that the White House during this confirmation process, which overall went smoothly, failed to provide critical documents as part of the record that could have provided us with a better basis to make our judgment with respect to the nomination. This White House continues to stymie efforts on the part of the Senate to do its job. I hope with the next nominee who comes up for the Supreme Court that the White House recognizes that in fact it is its duty not just to the Senate but to the American people to make sure we can thoroughly and adequately evaluate the record of every single nominee who comes before us.

Having said that, the decision with respect to Judge Roberts' nomination has not been an easy one for me to make. As some of you know, I have not only argued cases before appellate courts but for 10 years was a member of the University of Chicago Law School faculty and taught courses in constitutional law. Part of the culture of the University of Chicago Law School faculty is to maintain a sense of collegiality between those people who hold different views. What engenders respect is not the particular outcome that a legal scholar arrives at but, rather, the intellectual rigor and honesty with which he or she arrives at a decision.

Given that background, I am sorely tempted to vote for Judge Roberts based on my study of his resume, his conduct during the hearings, and a conversation I had with him yesterday afternoon.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind Judge Roberts is qualified to sit on the highest court in the land. Moreover, he seems to have the comportment and the temperament that makes for a good judge. He is humble, he is personally decent, and he appears to be respectful of different points of view. It is absolutely clear to me that Judge Roberts truly loves the law. He couldn't have achieved his excellent record as an advocate before the Supreme Court without that passion for the law, and it became apparent to me in our conversation that he does, in fact, deeply respect the basic precepts that go into deciding 95 percent of the cases that come before the Federal court -- adherence to precedence, a certain modesty in reading statutes and constitutional text, a respect for procedural regularity, and an impartiality in presiding over the adversarial system. All of these characteristics make me want to vote for Judge Roberts.

The problem I face -- a problem that has been voiced by some of my other colleagues, both those who are voting for Mr. Roberts and those who are voting against Mr. Roberts -- is that while adherence to legal precedent and rules of statutory or constitutional construction will dispose of 95 percent of the cases that come before a court, so that both a Scalia and a Ginsburg will arrive at the same place most of the time on those 95 percent of the cases -- what matters on the Supreme Court is those 5 percent of cases that are truly difficult. In those cases, adherence to precedent and rules of construction and interpretation will only get you through the 25th mile of the marathon. That last mile can only be determined on the basis of one's deepest values, one's core concerns, one's broader perspectives on how the world works, and the depth and breadth of one's empathy.

In those 5 percent of hard cases, the constitutional text will not be directly on point. The language of the statute will not be perfectly clear. Legal process alone will not lead you to a rule of decision. In those circumstances, your decisions about whether affirmative action is an appropriate response to the history of discrimination in this country or whether a general right of privacy encompasses a more specific right of women to control their reproductive decisions or whether the commerce clause empowers Congress to speak on those issues of broad national concern that may be only tangentially related to what is easily defined as interstate commerce, whether a person who is disabled has the right to be accommodated so they can work alongside those who are nondisabled -- in those difficult cases, the critical ingredient is supplied by what is in the judge's heart.

I talked to Judge Roberts about this. Judge Roberts confessed that, unlike maybe professional politicians, it is not easy for him to talk about his values and his deeper feelings. That is not how he is trained. He did say he doesn't like bullies and has always viewed the law as a way of evening out the playing field between the strong and the weak.

I was impressed with that statement because I view the law in much the same way. The problem I had is that when I examined Judge Roberts' record and history of public service, it is my personal estimation that he has far more often used his formidable skills on behalf of the strong in opposition to the weak. In his work in the White House and the Solicitor General's Office, he seemed to have consistently sided with those who were dismissive of efforts to eradicate the remnants of racial discrimination in our political process. In these same positions, he seemed dismissive of the concerns that it is harder to make it in this world and in this economy when you are a woman rather than a man.

I want to take Judge Roberts at his word that he doesn't like bullies and he sees the law and the Court as a means of evening the playing field between the strong and the weak. But given the gravity of the position to which he will undoubtedly ascend and the gravity of the decisions in which he will undoubtedly participate during his tenure on the Court, I ultimately have to give more weight to his deeds and the overarching political philosophy that he appears to have shared with those in power than to the assuring words that he provided me in our meeting.

The bottom line is this: I will be voting against John Roberts' nomination. I do so with considerable reticence. I hope that I am wrong. I hope that this reticence on my part proves unjustified and that Judge Roberts will show himself to not only be an outstanding legal thinker but also someone who upholds the Court's historic role as a check on the majoritarian impulses of the executive branch and the legislative branch. I hope that he will recognize who the weak are and who the strong are in our society. I hope that his jurisprudence is one that stands up to the bullies of all ideological stripes.

Let me conclude with just one more comment about this confirmation process.
I was deeply disturbed by some statements that were made by largely Democratic advocacy groups when ranking member Senator Leahy announced that he would support Judge Roberts. Although the scales have tipped in a different direction for me, I am deeply admiring of the work and the thought that Senator Leahy has put into making his decision. The knee-jerk unbending and what I consider to be unfair attacks on Senator Leahy's motives were unjustified. Unfortunately, both parties have fallen victim to this kind of pressure.

I believe every Senator on the other side of the aisle, if they were honest, would acknowledge that the same unyielding, unbending, dogmatic approach to judicial confirmation has in large part been responsible for the kind of poisonous atmosphere that exists in this Chamber regarding judicial nominations. It is tempting, then, for us on this side of the aisle to go tit for tat.

But what I would like to see is for all of us to recognize as we move forward to the next nominee that in fact the issues that are confronted by the Supreme Court are difficult issues. That is why they get up to the Supreme Court. The issues facing the Court are rarely black and white, and all advocacy groups who have a legitimate and profound interest in the decisions that are made by the Court should try to make certain that their advocacy reflects that complexity. These groups on the right and left should not resort to the sort of broad-brush dogmatic attacks that have hampered the process in the past and constrained each and every Senator in this Chamber from making sure that they are voting on the basis of their conscience.

Thank you very much.


by highgrade on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry, but the facts disagree with you. (none / 0)

Having looked over his abortion voting record (as well as his consistent 100% pro-choice scores from NARAL and Planned Parenthood as both a state and federal legislator) and heard/read the statements from Planned Parenthood leaders concerning his much-maligned but in fact perfectly honorable "present" votes in Illinois, I'd say we have every reason to be sure about his creds on choice.  His record is far from hazy.

(Incidentally, Russ Feingold voted for Roberts as well, so if that's your qualification for being a DINO, you end up looking all manner of silly.)


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry, but the facts disagree with you. (2.00 / 1)

I do stand humbly corrected on the Roberts vote. However, I still believe based on BO comments depending on which audience he is before, that he is murky about his stance on abortion.


Take it to the Convention! Hillary '08"
by JHL on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 05:46:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I disagree, but I can accept that. (none / 0)

I personally make it a point to judge candidates by their votes and their accomplishments, not their speeches.  But I understand that the media meme has been to deny that Obama has a voting record, so it doesn't surprise me that many people don't consult it.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 05:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your mother sounds like mine. (none / 0)

Obama voted against Roberts.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 05:44:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gender and Race-baiting (2.00 / 1)

Personally, I think most of the offense taken during this campaign is over the top, but perhaps that's because I don't easily offend.  Both campaigns have gotten their hands dirty, and the race/sex issues haven't affected my vote one bit.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 03:30:51 PM EST

Re: Gender and Race-baiting (2.00 / 1)

Tell your mom that if she votes for McCain (or sits it out , which has the same result) she is voting against Roe v Wade, she will set women back over 50 years, it will kill what's left of our economy, and we all suffer.

BTW - I lived in State College as a kid, when my dad taught at Penn State.

I don't agree with TeresaNPennsylvania who posted above me, who will be making the same mistake as your mom.  

I agree with you - that there has been racism and sexism used as tools against both candidates, but we need to put that aside and focus on defeating McCain.  

If McCain gets in office I might as well lose hope and start looking for a friendly country to retire to - am looking at Canada.    


Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing McCain perversity
by NeciVelez on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 03:35:34 PM EST

Re: Gender and Race-baiting (2.00 / 1)

I have 11 years til retirement, which I plan to do somewhere else if the American dollar doesn't tank so bad that I cannot afford to live anywhere else.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 03:50:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gender and Race-baiting (none / 0)

If McCain gets in  we can both kiss retiring good-bye.


Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing McCain perversity
by NeciVelez on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gender and Race-baiting (none / 0)

I don't want to see Monica Lewinski elected president, either.
Anyway, she may still be too young.
by johnnygunn on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:04:05 PM EST

Re: Gender and Race-baiting (none / 0)

Actually, Ms. Lewinski turns 35 this summer.
Gawd, I am really getting old.
by johnnygunn on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:05:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gender and Race-baiting (2.00 / 1)

"The idea that there was racism used against Obama is a lie made up to win SC."

Keep telling yourself that.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:12:37 PM EST

Re: Gender and Race-baiting (2.00 / 1)

"I have read many comments on this and other sites that accuse Obama of misogyny."

But have you seen one shred of evidence, even oblique, to back it up?

Just because some people say unsubstantiated things doesn't mean they need to be seriously considered, much less repeated.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:15:57 PM EST

Hmmm (2.00 / 1)

I'm not sure how much people who make such claims against Senator Obama really want an honest discussion about them. But maybe I'm wrong, I'd really like to see what they are for myself.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:25:32 PM EST


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